Author Topic: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars  (Read 391 times)

Peter Anderson

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No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« on: October 06, 2010, 10:50:45 AM »
The AR Lightbars

On the Yamaha AR the drawbars are in the form of 7 buttons, which illuminate when active.  In practice, the one farthest away is Off and the one nearest, with all the others illuminated in between, has them fully On, so you have only 6 different volume settings available, besides off.   Each additionally illuminated button nearly doubles the volume of that harmonic. 

With the AR100, all 9 of these are featured on the Upper Keyboard, but the 16’ and 5 1/3’ are omitted from the Lower Keyboard.

With the AR80 the 1 2/3’ are also omitted from both Keyboards.

Both the AR100 and AR80 have 16’ and 8’ drawbars on the Pedal board, which is usually standard on all Hammonds.

Hammond organs use sliding bars that are numbered 0 to 8, with 0 being Off and with 8 being maximum volume.   Also the 8' and 5 1/3' reverse their order.


What’s the point of having these fraction drawbars, since they do not play the note you are actually playing?

The answer is that they can give colour and flavour to your registrations.

When using them remember these key things;
   1   Don’t use these fraction drawbars on their own.   (If you do so, your friends will think you sound like Les Dawson!)
   2   Always use a whole number or fundamental drawbar which is longer than the first fraction drawbar you use.   
                                                   (i.e. Don’t use 5 1/3’ and 4’, without 8’ or 16’.)
   3   Use the fraction drawbars sparingly.

Why make them adjustable for volume and not just put them on a tab?

Some organs have tabs instead of drawbars, of course, but with drawbars you can draw out the sound so that the volume of each drawbar can be varied.
This is something the pipe organs could not do.    Volume was controlled by the opening and closing of what is essentiallly a cupboard door, with the cupboard full of pipes and, therefore, sound, inside.....
   
There is a standard shorthand to define drawbar settings written in this form for a Hammond 00 8040 000, which means pull out the 8’ to maximum and the 22/3' to half way.   
N.B. On an AR100 this would be written 08 0040 000, because the 5 1/3’ swops its position with the 8’.

You may find these (Hammond) numbers printed at the top of some music you play and they are put there as a suggested registration.

                                                                                                                More   See No 11


Roger Mardon

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 08:33:29 PM »
Surely the Hammond drawbar setting 00 8040 000 is 8ft to maximum and 2 2/3ft to half way with AR100 equivalent being 08 0040 000.  4ft to max is 00 0400 000 on both instruments.  Maybe I’m just tired.

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2018, 11:05:27 AM »
Roger,

The thing about the AR 'Light Drawbars' is that there are only six positions you can have them in.  A light on at the very top is zero, and all the lights showing down to the bottom one (all 7 of them lit up) is maximum.  As the top light represents zero, I would describe all seven lights being lit up as at a volume of 6 ??.  The 'standard' is to have 8 'notches' to increase/decrease the volumes of the drawbars selected.  And this really is '8 increments'.



Also, as already mentioned, the 'order' of those drawbars on the AR is different to the 'standard' in that the first three drawbars on the AR are "16′", "8′" and "​5 1⁄3′".  This is a simple matter to take on board, but when trying to sort out some recommended drawbar settings it is not easy to work out where to have those 'lightbars'.

Some drawbar settings have become well-known and associated with certain musicians. A very popular setting is 88 8000 000 (ie. with the drawbars labelled "16′", "​5 1⁄3′" and "8′" fully pulled out), and has been identified as the "classic" Jimmy Smith sound.  That's an easy one.  On the AR 100 this would be represented by 66 6000 000 (on my AR 80 it would be 66 6000 00 as I am missing the 13/5).

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the sound you want to hear, and I suspect that any drawbar setting would sound different on different organs.

Whiter Shade Of Pale

The recommended Drawbar setup for playing Whiter Shade Of Pale is:



On my AR 80 this is how I have set up the drawbars for playing Whiter Shade of Pale, which is nothing like the setup suggested above.  The below is in Yamaha 'lightbar' numbers, but I have a suspicion that I should be adding one to each of the numbers as that would then be how many lights are actually showing.  See my later comment.

Lower:         8'            4'          22/3         2'         11/3
              6 (Max)         4            4             2           1

Upper:        16'           8'          51/3          4'
              6 (Max)         5            5             4

But then I also have an 'overall' volume for each manual to get a 'balance' between the two.  The Upper is set at 24 (Maximum), and the Lower at 17, so the Upper is much louder than the Lower.  And then there is Sustain; and Reverb (Reverb on Max).

Also into this mix I have some 'Organ Voices' on the Upper (ie. not Drawbars): 16' Pipe Organ, and 16' Click Organ.

And then of course this is a tune that you really need to use 'pedals' for, as the bass gradually 'walks down'.  My Pedals are set at 16' and 8'.  And I have used the Leslie speaker Fast/Slow (of course!).

My version of Whiter Shade Of Pale with the drawbars set up as I have indicated above.  As I said, it's all a question of getting the sound you want to hear.

Whiter Shade Of Pale (MP3)

Hugh
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Roger Mardon

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 04:58:34 PM »
Hugh,

The point I was making, rightly or wrongly, is that Peter has mistaken the order of the drawbars in his penultimate paragraph. Position 4 is 4ft and position 5 is 2 2/3ft on both instruments, is it not?

Roger

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2018, 05:23:43 PM »
Roger,
 
You have referred to this paragraph above........

There is a standard shorthand to define drawbar settings written in this form for a Hammond 00 8040 000, which means pull out the 8’ to maximum and the 22/3' to half way.   
N.B. On an AR100 this would be written 08 0040 000, because the 5 1/3’ swops its position with the 8’.


That paragraph is now completely accurate, but you quite rightly point out that orignally I referred to the 4' and not the 22/3'.   We need your sharp eyes!

Note that the position of the numbers, e.g.   for Hammond 00 8040 000 indicates the drawbar... so the 3rd one =8 refers to the 8' drawbar,  while the  5th  number, =4  refers to the  22/3' drawbar.

All the others in this case because the numbers are 0 should be pushed in, or totally off.

Now the numbers, themselves inform you, how far to pull each drawbar out.
So, as we have mentioned,   0 means leave it pushed fully in.
That 3rd digit  8  refers to Hammond's number on the actual drawbar, so in this case you pull out the 8' to volume 8 = fully out.
The 5th digit  4, means you pullout the 22/3' drawbar, to the volume level 4, which happens to be halfway.

Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 05:24:29 PM »
Adding to the previous post, take a look at

             Peters Pearls No 14  -  Drawbars  (xiv) Combining Draw bar settings,

where I cover the differences in 'volume', between the Hammond drawbars which have 0 with 1-8 settings, and the Yamaha AR only has 0-6.

You can open that Pearl in a new window by clicking on this link;

http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=1528.0

I hope this clarifies it all for you.    If not please come back.

Peter

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 05:36:43 PM »
Roger,

Yes, you're quite right.  The 4' drawbar is in position 4; and position 5 is the 22/3 drawbar on both instruments.

The difficulty comes, or course, with trying to define where the 'lightbar' should be.  I suspect Peter is right when he says 'half way' is on 4, as four lights will be lit up running down.  So maybe I should write a 'maximum' as 77 7000 00 and not as '6', as I did above.  And my Whiter Shade Of Pale setup should have one number added to the numbers showing.

A zero drawbar should not have any light on at all, as far as I am concerned.

Hugh
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Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 05:57:45 PM »
I think it worth mentioning, that I always record any drawbar settings, using Hammond numbers.

The reason is, if I used all or some of the 'equivalent' Yamaha AR numbers, in the future I wouldn't remember which was which.   So keeping them all to the same format, I know exactly where I am.
Furthermore, as I have mentioned elsewhere, you sometimes see Hammond drawbar settings actually printed on music scores.   It makes sense to always be singing from the same songsheet, as the very appropriate expression goes.
In other words think Hammond, but set up Yamaha AR.

We just need to be cute in the way we adjust our AR lightbars to get close to the intended sound, but we have the right to alter them further to satisfy our particular taste.   Remember that if the Hammond Drawbar setting states this is a precise sound, take it with a pinch of salt, and in any case, if you set those precise Hammond numbers on 2 different organs, they would probably not sound alike!

Peter

Roger Mardon

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 09:53:04 PM »
You have referred to this paragraph above........

Quote
There is a standard shorthand to define drawbar settings written in this form for a Hammond 00 8040 000, which means pull out the 8’ to maximum and the 22/3' to half way.   
N.B. On an AR100 this would be written 08 0040 000, because the 5 1/3’ swops its position with the 8’.


That paragraph is now completely accurate, but you quite rightly point out that orignally I referred to the 4' and not the 22/3'.  We need your sharp eyes!

Peter/Hugh,

Thank you. I thought I was right.

I have no trouble understanding the difference between Hammond and Yamaha volume settings, but what a pity Yamaha couldn’t follow Hammond’s nine (0 to 8) position settings. All the touch controls on the EL90 also have seven settings - must be Yamaha’s favourite number.

Roger

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2018, 04:02:53 PM »
We appreciate your input and observation, Roger.    We are only amateurs, easily prone to mistakes and errors, but we are prepared to admit when we are wrong.      We will still persist in supplying helpful posts to further the interest in the Yamaha AR organs.    So please keep a watchful eye on us!

My guess is that Yamahas different approach to 'drawbars' probably had something to do with copyright and patents, etc, at the time.

I now notice that most organs/keyboards with said drawbars, are numbered clearly and identically to the same way as the original Hammond ones.   Interesting!

Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2018, 04:18:26 PM »
You might also like to read through   Peters Pearls No 85 - Drawbars (xviii), which you can open in a new window by clicking on this link:

http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=3029.0#lastPost

Peter

Roger Mardon

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 09:19:45 PM »
Believe me, Peter, when I say there is no-one more amateur at this game than me. Whilst you might be an amateur in the strict sense of the term, the wealth of knowledge you display in your posts on this forum is profound and I would say expert is a more accurate definition of your status. I have learnt a lot from Peter’s Pearls and look forward to learning a lot more from yourself and Hugh, another expert, as well as other contributors. This forum is truly a valuable resource.

If you read “About Roger Mardon”, which I have posted in the Members’ Section ...

http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=3060.0

... you will see my very amateur background. And while you’re there can I persuade you to offer some comment on the quality of AR orchestral sounds. I would value your opinion.

Best regards, Roger

PS. I have just noticed that my original post was wrong. I referred to 00 0400 000 as 4ft to max when I should have said 4ft to half way!

Roger Mardon

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2018, 09:41:13 PM »
Hugh,

You’ve obviously put a lot of work into “A Whiter Shade of Pale” with great success. I like it a lot.

Roger

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 11:50:30 PM »
Roger,

Thanks for your comment.  I do enjoy putting together things like this to get them to sound as I want them to.  I don't read music, so I am able to put whatever comes to mind into my music.  I used to play piano in a 'pop' band as a youngster (in Kenya) and we used to have to play 50 songs a week, which I did just following the chords the guitarist had written out for us.  Been there, done that.  So I am inclined now to spend my time on the technical side of things rather than just playing something.  To give you another example of what I do, click this LINK which will take you to my arrangement of "All You Need Is Love" by The Beatles.

http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=3066.msg10900#msg10900

Peter .. sorry, we seem to be digressing from your 'Pearl' on the AR Lightbars!
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Peter Anderson

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Re: No__10____Drawbars – (v) AR Lightbars
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2018, 12:03:37 PM »
No problem to me.

It should help other members to realise just how all these things relate to one another and how these articles can assist them, in benefitting them, by appreciating what is available on our Yamaha AR organs, which although they are over 20 years old, still take some beating.

It is so valuable to find a source, like this AR-Group, that can provide such a wealth of broad detail, enabling them to gain the maximum advantage of their instruments and their regular enjoyment of them.

Peter

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