Author Topic: No__62___Giant Chords  (Read 320 times)

Peter Anderson

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No__62___Giant Chords
« on: December 19, 2015, 06:09:56 PM »
Giant Chords

Have you ever wondered how some musicians remember large, extended chords?       Understanding how they are made up will be especially helpful for you.

Giant Chord  is simply a big chord made up of smaller ones.

For example, C minor 11   is:



I am sure you would think that this would be considered a “big” chord.
But do you really have to remember each note individually?
Not at all.

Look at it carefully.    How many small chords do you see in this C minor 11 chord?
By that I mean chords made up of at least 3 notes!     You may be surprised at how many there are.

Try to separate them yourself, before you read on.    How many can you list?

To stop you cheating, the answers are given in the next posting, and the one after that suggests an easy method to playing these Giant Chords.


However, I thought we could use this as another simple Christmas Quiz, so the next posting and, therefore, the answers will not appear until the New Year.

Peter


Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 06:18:05 PM »
Please feel free to tell us your findings!  If you only pop one up, there is enough for many replies!   
 You have until the first week of January 2016.
Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 08:25:31 AM »
Come on folks, who is going to get the ball rolling?
I have found 17 so far!     That is from just 6 notes!
Can anyone better that?
At least list those you have found, please.
Peter

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2015, 11:05:31 PM »
Peter,

Not sure what you are wanting here.  I can list a few chords, but nothing like the 17 you have found!

Cm  ...  C Eb G
Eb  ...  Eb G Bb
Gm  ...  G Bb D
Bb  ...  Bb D F

Cm7  ...  C Eb G Bb
EbM7  ...  Eb G Bb D
Gm7  ...  G Bb D F
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Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 12:18:48 PM »
Brilliant, Hugh.   Well done.
All will be revealed, but there is a point to discovering the smaller chords within 'Giant Chords', and that is detailed in my next reply.

Peter

Neville Allen

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 03:13:25 PM »
Hi Peter

I have managed to find ten chords, as well as Hugh's six chords I found the following three:-

Eb6  ...  G Bb D Eb
Bb6  ...  F G Bb D
Ab  ...  G C Eb  (Neville: These notes are Cm .. Hugh)

Without including inversions I am intrigued to see how you managed to find an amazing total of seventeen.

With best wishes for a Happy New Year.

Neville
 

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 07:30:32 PM »
Neville.

See note (excuse the pun) in purple, above.  Are the notes you listed the ones you meant?

Peter,

I hope you haven't listed the following in your 17!  Although the below contain some of the relevant notes, they don't give the correct harmonious 'sound' without the 'third'.

C7  ...  C G Bb  (this one needs an E)
F7  ...  C Eb F  (this one needs an A)
G7  ...  G D F  (this one needs a B)
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Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2016, 02:00:19 PM »
Now this has become interesting.   I suspect I have intrigued you.
Peter

Neville Allen

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 10:11:15 PM »
Hi Peter/Hugh
Yes, I agree with your comment. My only excuse is that I endeavoured to make productive use of the time spent on a return coach trip to London, and scribbled some notes from memory which were subsequently mis-interpreted when submitting my notes. However, it did prove to be an interesting exercise.

Best wishes
Neville

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 11:09:00 PM »
There is a not very subtle clue, in the post before last.
Peter

Hugh Wallington

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 11:14:28 PM »
Hi Peter,

I suspect that you are leading me to look for suspended chords, and I have found these 'suspended 4th chords':

Csus4  ...  C F G
Gsus4  ...  G C D
Bbsus4  ...  Bb Eb F
Fsus4  ...  F Bb C

When are these used?  Do they lead to the major chord by dropping the 4th to the 3rd?  .. like a C7 chord will lead you into an F?

Then I believe there are 'suspended 2nd chords':

Csus2  ...  C D G
Ebsus2  ...  Eb F Bb
Bbsus2  ...  Bb C F
Fsus2  ...  F G C

I do occasionally use the 'sus4' chord; but never a 'sus2' chord.  When would you use a 'sus2' chord and what does it lead to?

(All Sus chords create tension that needs to be resolved, so they are very useful.     Click this link to find out more about sus chords:
http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=2409.msg8445#msg8445
Peter)

Please don't leave us in suspense too long.  We need some answers!

Hugh

PS.  Between the ones I have listed, and Neville has listed (in GREEN) .. I make that 17!
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Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 10:17:57 AM »
You took the hint, well done.
Take a look at the following Replies, where I put you all out of your suspense.
Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 12:17:15 PM »
I am so pleased that a couple of members made replies to my earlier question, about how many chords there are within that one giant chord.
I am sure that many others of you couldn't resist investigating it.

So how many chords did you see in that Giant Chord of Cmin11?

For starters, here are just 6.      Yes at least 6 chords 'hidden' within that one chord.

You will find a fuller list of all 17 in the next Reply, if you want to check them out.

There is a C minor triad:
Made up of     C     Eb       G


There is an Eb major triad:
Made up of            Eb     G     Bb


As well as a G minor triad:
Made up of        G     Bb     D


and a Bb major triad:
Made up of         Bb      D     F


And also an Eb major 7 chord:
Made up of          Eb     G     Bb     D


beside a G minor 7 chord:
Made up of          G     Bb     D      F

Now, how can we utilise this information in order to play these giant chords?    This is the point of breaking those giant chords down.    A little analysis now, makes playing them much easier.

Well, one way to ‘play’ this          C minor 11            chord, Is to play the following:

Pedal            C
Left Hand         Ebmaj7
Right Hand                          Bb major


Like this:



Or you could invert the Eb major 7 chord so that the notes are arranged like this:



So the next time you come across a giant chord, that you think of as a monster, don’t be intimidated by it.    Instead, look for the smaller and simpler chords within it, create your own formula like the one above, make a note of the chords you choose and practice it regularly to commit it to memory.

And there you have it!

Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2016, 12:32:43 PM »
Before listing the rest of the chords 'hidden' in the giant chord, you might like to think about a helpful fact relating to inverting sus chords.     It will enable you to find more chords in the giant chord, if you have already discovered a sus chord!

Click this link to go directly there to find out more:

http://www.ar-group.org/smforum/index.php?topic=2409.msg8530#msg8530

Read specifically the short 10th reply, posted on Jan 2, 2016.

Peter

Peter Anderson

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Re: No__62___Giant Chords
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 04:58:31 PM »
As promised in the previous reply, here  is a full list of smaller chords within that one chord of    Cm11

The 6 already listed in the previous Reply
Cm
Eb
Gm
Bb
Ebmaj7
Gm7


plus
Cm7
Bb6
Eb6


and some sus chords
Csus4
Csus2
Fsus4
Fsus2
Gsus4
Bbsus4
Bbsus2
Ebsus2


Congratulations if you discovered all these.

In the following Replies we explore some easy way to remember these Giant Chords.

Peter